polyphony with Fantom 6? or only 0 series

[Deadkeys]

Looking to purchase an 06 but the polyphony issues keep me from pulling the trigger.
The Fantom 6 is heavier than my Korg Nautilus at 30lbs but does the Fantom 6 have the same
issues or no?

Thanks

[xp30]

Looking to purchase an 06 but the polyphony issues keep me from pulling the trigger.
The Fantom 6 is heavier than my Korg Nautilus at 30lbs but does the Fantom 6 have the same
issues or no?

Can you be more specific about the "polyphony issue" that you are concerned about?

[Deadkeys]

There are terrible reviews on youtube and other forums stating that just putting together 3 layers, the sounds cut off.
Like holding the sustain pedal and the 1st sound stops after the 3rd note is triggered. For a board that offer 8 layers seems hinky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74BhNKkXnE&t=149s

https://youtu.be/8kIwuJw5pwU?si=jUeC3oZ ... &t=918[url][/url]

There are others talking about this issue as well not just Derrick

[xp30]

There are terrible reviews on youtube and other forums stating that just putting together 3 layers, the sounds cut off.
Like holding the sustain pedal and the 1st sound stops after the 3rd note is triggered. For a board that offer 8 layers seems hinky

These two issues were fixed with version 3.02 for the big Fantom and with version 1.04 for the Fantom-0. This has been discussed previously on this forum.

[osflaa]

There are terrible reviews on youtube and other forums stating that just putting together 3 layers, the sounds cut off.
Like holding the sustain pedal and the 1st sound stops after the 3rd note is triggered. For a board that offer 8 layers seems hinky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74BhNKkXnE&t=149s

https://youtu.be/8kIwuJw5pwU?si=jUeC3oZ ... &t=918[url][/url]

There are others talking about this issue as well not just Derrick

Making videos where one complains about products or warn others against buying specific products is probably the best way to get attention on YouTube. It's not clear to me if people refer to a bug or a design limitation when they talk about this 'issue'. If the latter is the case: If one is unable to make a great album or play a great concert because of the 'limitation' in number of voices, then I would argue that these limitations are the least of the musician's problems. It shouldn't be a problem to avoid the limitation if one have the slightest will and knowledge to adapt (zone voice reserve, release time vs reverb decay etc). There will always be people who manage to make a problem out of anything. I have read posts by forum users who claimed that it was impossible to make music in a DAW because the metronome did not go beyond 512 BPM.

Well, that's my personal opinion on the matter anyway.

[Deadkeys]

Thanks for the info

[MaikyPii]

There are terrible reviews on youtube and other forums stating that just putting together 3 layers, the sounds cut off.
Like holding the sustain pedal and the 1st sound stops after the 3rd note is triggered. For a board that offer 8 layers seems hinky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74BhNKkXnE&t=149s

https://youtu.be/8kIwuJw5pwU?si=jUeC3oZ ... &t=918[url][/url]

There are others talking about this issue as well not just Derrick

Well, these reviews are quite a bit old and as already told there´s the new firmware update 3.02 or the Fantom EX Upgrade, which handels polyphony better than before. However, you need to know when you use sounds from the zen-engine there´s always a slight possibility of running out of polyphony. Let´s have a simple example: one "layer/patch" can consist of 4 partials. One partial could consist of 2 notes (if PCM stereo), that means, just hitting ONE key could need 8 voices maximum. Now you play a great chord with bass consisting of 5 keys it already may sum up to 40 voices. Now you do not have only 1 layer but 3 (all with 4 stereo partials), playing just this one chord adds up to 120 voices. Now hit sustain and play another chord and your at 240 voices, which is close to Fantom`s 256 max voices.
I know this is quite a special and very rare case here, but it´s theoretically possible and it´s just to show simple math and how some great patches/layers can eat up your polyphony anyway.
Nevertheless, since the latest firmware update I can build some great layers and if I run out of polyphonie I just use the priority function or switch off some unnessecary partials...

[xp30]

There are terrible reviews on youtube and other forums stating that just putting together 3 layers, the sounds cut off.
Like holding the sustain pedal and the 1st sound stops after the 3rd note is triggered. For a board that offer 8 layers seems hinky

These two issues were fixed with version 3.02 for the big Fantom and with version 1.04 for the Fantom-0. This has been discussed previously on this forum.

Let me add some additional information. This Youtuber demonstrated (1) notes cutting off when layering an acoustic piano tone with two other tones, (2) notes cutting off when layering 5-6 SuperNatural-Acoustic solo string instruments, and (3) generally complained about the Fantom only having 128 stereo polyphony.

There are a number of people who have experienced (1), and there are discussions on this forum. Many of the discussions did not come to a conclusion. More recently it was discovered that the redamper feature results in notes being cut off incorrectly. This feature is typically enabled for acoustic piano tones and not for other tones. It is plausible that most of the previous reports were caused by this issue. This issue is no longer reproducible since version 3.02 / 1.04. It is not clear whether Roland fixed something specific about the redamper feature, or whether they fixed something else and this specific issue disappeared as a result of that. Regardless, since version 3.02 / 1.04, I have seen no more examples about notes being cut off incorrectly when layering acoustic piano tones with other tones. It is very likely that in the Youtuber's examples of this issue, the notes would no longer be audibly cut off. Assuming that voice assign mode is set to the default value LIMIT, and not to FULL, because it does not what he thinks it does.

The issue (2) looks like a special case. Note that there are newer solo string tones on the Fantom, which are better suited for layering. I am not sure if anyone else tried layering the SuperNatural Acoustic string tones before, and it looks as if there was a dormant bug in the firmware. Anyway, Roland fixed this specific issue with version 3.02 / 1.04.

Re (3): The polyphony did not increase with version 3.02 / 1.04. Are 128 stereo voices enough? I know basically nothing about studio workflows, and I can't talk about it. For live usage, I would argue that for someone who learns a bit about the Fantom, I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where 128 stereo voices are not sufficient.

Yes, if you layer 4 tones, and each note triggers all 4 partials in each layer, then notes will cut off after playing 8 notes. Yes, it is true that the CFX Concert and the Yamaha Montage uses 18 elements. Isn't it normal to layer so many partials/elements? No, it is not. The 18 elements on the CFX Concert use key and velocity ranges, and only 1 element is triggered per note. Layering too many partials/elements does not improve the sound. It causes muddy and phasy sound, which is rarely useful when playing live.