Does the Fantom-0 has all the sounds in the Roland FA?

[hag01]

I was unlucky to buy an FA-06 exactly two weeks before the Fantom-0 was announced.

The FA has a unique virtual analog synth engine called Supernatural Synth, and it has many of the XV-5080 sounds which considered to be classic.

My question is whether the Fantom-0 also has the same Roland Supernatural Synth and all the XV-5080 sounds that FA has, plus more sound engines and additional newer PCM sounds, and more features, etc..or does it has completely new sound engine and new samples which completely different from the FA?

If they are just different instruments with different samples and different sound engines, I won't regret buying the FA in such timing even if the Fantom-0 is just better specs-wise. I like having different keyboards with different unique sounds. The Supernatural Synth for example, has a unique and warm character which I really like, the FA is worth keeping even just for that.

But if the Fantom-0 has all the sounds in the FA plus many more sounds plus better specs and so on, then man, what a bummer.

[BBQ]

Hi,

You can download the patch lists from Roland. Basically the Fantom and Fantom-0 have all PCM and SN sounds of the FA, plus the synth legends sounds that you can download from Axial. Other Axial sounds (summer, ...) are not included, nor can you install them directly.

You can have more than 2 expansion boards installed (which is a drawback on my FA), but memory is still limited so you still can't really have them all at the same time with room to spare.

On top of that, you have a bank with AX (guitar synth) sounds, GM sounds, a bank with new Zen sounds, and another SN-A piano. There are other differences, like the sequencer being pattern-based, and I'm not sure if you can replicate the FA TFXs.

(disclaimer: I don't own a Fantom-0 myself)

[Tiguspca]

I know where you're coming from. I'm in a similar situation, I bought my FA08 a few months ago so like you I was a little frustrated seeing the Fantom-O8 come out at a price lower than the FA08. I even looked into working something out with my local shop and they were willing to give me a good deal on the exchange however I would have been without a keyboard until June because they don't expect to receive the new ones until then where I live.

Coming back to your question, I think the Fantom 0 with the Zencore and a VTone Wheel organ, plus and the multi sampling capability has the upper hand. It also has more controls which is nice but... it's not perfect.
You would lose some of the parameters of the SN-A pianos like string resonance and hammer noise and tone ajustements and the SN-A guitars (they added other SN-A instruments that the FA does not have)). Another big loss is the linear sequencer and the ability to import SMF larger than 64 bars. Also I read that if you want to benefit from Seamless switching between tones your limited to 8 scenes on the Fantom0, (which may very well be enough) on the FA it's 16.
Lets just say that if I had the choice today not having bought my FA I would have certainly have chosen the Fantom 0 but I'm still quite happy with my purchase. The only thing I was hoping is that they would eventually offer and upgrade like the did with the Juno DS to import multisamples. However I don't expect any upgrades now that the Fantom O is out. I'll just live with it and probably buy a MODX6 to complement my FA eventually.

GP

[anotherscott2022]

Expanding on some of what has been said...

FA has...

* SuperNATURAL Synth. Fantom-0 has its own VA synth engine in ZEN-Core, but even though it is not exactly the SuperNATURAL Synth, the Fantom-0 does include, as has been mentioned, all the SuperNATURAL Synth sounds of the FA. Whether or not they truly sound identical under the newer model's different (and generally more capable) sound engine, I don't know, I haven't heard any of the patches side-by-side on a Fantom/Fantom-0 and an FA/Integra. But they should at least sound very close. There is no mechanism by which to bring your own SuperNATURAL Synth sounds from the FA into the Fantom-0, though.

* the XV-5080 sound set. This set of patches, again, exist in both the FA and the Fantom-0.

* SuperNATURAL Acoustic instruments:
piano -- this is on Fantom-0, but with fewer adjustable parameters
Rhodes -- Fantom-0 has a smaller set of Rhodes SN pianos
Wurli -- NOT on Fantom-0
clav- - NOT on Fantom-0
organ -- not on Fantom-0 BUT the VTW engine on Fantom-0 is better
acoustic bass -- NOT on Fantom-0
electric bass -- this IS on Fantom-0
acoustic guitar -- NOT on Fantom-0
ensemble strings -- this IS on Fantom-0

(Fantom-0 also has numerous SuperNATURAL Acoustic instruments that are not on the FA. Integra appears to have all the Fantom-0 AND FA SN Acoustic instruments and more, except for the new additional SN piano which so I believe is only on the Fantoms.)

* the ability to load two SRX-based expansions. The Fantom-0 has access to the same expansions, and can load more than two of them.

* FA has some other axial expansions that are not available to the Fantom-0.

Fantom-0 also has a whole lot of other sounds available that are not available in the FA.

The biggest reason somebody is likely to want an FA over a Fantom-0 is probably its sequencer.

[anotherscott2022]

Also I read that if you want to benefit from Seamless switching between tones your limited to 8 scenes on the Fantom0, (which may very well be enough) on the FA it's 16.

I think if you want to seamlessly switch between tones (among the 16 on an FA Studio Set, or among the 16 in a Fantom Scene using the "Kbd Sw Group" function), the Fantom-0 and FA are identically in their ability to do this. However, if you want to seamlessly switch from one Studio Set to another, the FA does not let you do that, whereas you can perform the equivalent function on a Fantom-0 and seamlessly switch from ones Scene to another... however when you enable that function, you drop to only being able to have 8 sounds total in your scene instead of a max of 16. So yes, something drops from 16 to 8 when you enable that kind of seamless switching, but that kind of seamless switching is not available at all on the FA.

[hag01]

Some additional question to the topic:
Are all the PCM sounds that the FA has, come loaded on the Fantom-0 from factory, or do you have to download them? If so, do you to pay for Roland Cloud subscription in order to do so?

[anotherscott2022]

Some additional question to the topic:
Are all the PCM sounds that the FA has, come loaded on the Fantom-0 from factory, or do you have to download them? If so, do you to pay for Roland Cloud subscription in order to do so?

All the FA factory-loaded PCM sounds (that is, all the non SuperNATURAL stuff) comes from the XV-5080, and yes, that's already on the Fantom-0.

[hag01]

Fantom-0 has its own VA synth engine in ZEN-Core

I got an offer from a musical instruments store to replace my FA + additional payment with a Fantom-0. But I have to decide quickly.

Can you tell me please if the Fantom-0 come with some VA model from factory, I.E without subscription or some additional payment to Roland-Cloud website? I know that the Fantom-0 can load many synth models from Roland-Cloud, but I must have some "free" basic synth engine. The Supernatural Synth that in the FA is just OK.
That will help me to get a decision.

[anotherscott2022]

Yes, Fantom-0 includes a ZEN-Core based VA synth engine. In fact, it even includes all the same "SuperNATURAL Synth" patches that are in the FA, recreated/converted to ZEN-Core. It's a more capable VA synth engine than SN-S.

[hag01]

I actually decided to keep the FA eventually.
The fantom-0 will arrive only in 4-6 month, I could have pre-order it.

[hag01]

Expanding on some of what has been said...

FA has...

* SuperNATURAL Synth. Fantom-0 has its own VA synth engine in ZEN-Core, but even though it is not exactly the SuperNATURAL Synth, the Fantom-0 does include, as has been mentioned, all the SuperNATURAL Synth sounds of the FA. Whether or not they truly sound identical under the newer model's different (and generally more capable) sound engine, I don't know, I haven't heard any of the patches side-by-side on a Fantom/Fantom-0 and an FA/Integra. But they should at least sound very close. There is no mechanism by which to bring your own SuperNATURAL Synth sounds from the FA into the Fantom-0, though.

* the XV-5080 sound set. This set of patches, again, exist in both the FA and the Fantom-0.

* SuperNATURAL Acoustic instruments:
piano -- this is on Fantom-0, but with fewer adjustable parameters
Rhodes -- Fantom-0 has a smaller set of Rhodes SN pianos
Wurli -- NOT on Fantom-0
clav- - NOT on Fantom-0
organ -- not on Fantom-0 BUT the VTW engine on Fantom-0 is better
acoustic bass -- NOT on Fantom-0
electric bass -- this IS on Fantom-0
acoustic guitar -- NOT on Fantom-0
ensemble strings -- this IS on Fantom-0

(Fantom-0 also has numerous SuperNATURAL Acoustic instruments that are not on the FA. Integra appears to have all the Fantom-0 AND FA SN Acoustic instruments and more, except for the new additional SN piano which so I believe is only on the Fantoms.)

* the ability to load two SRX-based expansions. The Fantom-0 has access to the same expansions, and can load more than two of them.

* FA has some other axial expansions that are not available to the Fantom-0.

Fantom-0 also has a whole lot of other sounds available that are not available in the FA.

The biggest reason somebody is likely to want an FA over a Fantom-0 is probably its sequencer.

I might still have time to regret.
Please tell me, you're saying the Fantom-0 don't has all the Supernatural E.Pianos that the FA has.
Do you think the new ZEN-Core E.Piano presets in the Fantom-0 compensate on that?

[anotherscott2022]

you're saying the Fantom-0 don't has all the Supernatural E.Pianos that the FA has.

Correct

Do you think the new ZEN-Core E.Piano presets in the Fantom-0 compensate on that?

I haven't really checked out the EPs, it's not something I was interested in. My potential use for the Fantom-0 would be as an additional board over a Yamaha or Kurzweil, and I'd be getting my EPs from that bottom board. I was never a big fan of SuperNATURAL EPs to begin with, though. But sounds being subjective, I imagine there are people who love 'em...

[hag01]

OK folks I returned my FA-06.
Now I have to wait about 4-6 month and then I'll get the Fantom-06 for 600$.
Hopefully the ZEN-Core Electric Pianos and Clavs are good enough.

[anotherscott2022]

Hopefully the ZEN-Core Electric Pianos and Clavs are good enough.

Also, besides ZEN-Core, it DOES have SuperNATURAL Rhodes, it just appears to be a different and probably slightly smaller collection of them than on the FA. Also, the Fantom-06 can still load the SRX-based expansions (which were also available for the FA), and it's also good at integrating external sounds over MIDI, so if there are a handful of sound you prefer to get, say, from an iPhone/iPad, it's easy to do.

As for the difference in the SuperNATURAL EPs between the FA and the Fantom-0...

...the basic Fantom-0 SN EPs appear to be MkI, MkII, and 1975. All the tones appear to be variations on those basic Rhodes-types of sounds. Though there are also some simply called "tine" and I don't know whether or not that's distinct from the others.

...FA seems to have '73, '76, '81, Dyno, and also some that simply say "tine" which may or may not be something else. But FA also has Wurli (reed) and clav.

[peterjohnson88]

I loaded up the free EXP with the EP sounds. Boy, there's a lots of them, and they're great. Takes up some space, but well worth it.