FANTOM 0x - SuperNatural Piano Polyphony issue

[jabberwocky]

Hi,
I added a Fantom-08 to my setup. Although this thing has imo a real issue with polyphony for SuperNatural Piano's :-/

A small music piece where you here the bass notes will drop out ???
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ryjvr6qc4mpm ... r.mp3?dl=0

Anybody noticing the same behaviour ?

Thanks

[thortschman]

Yes, noticed same here. IMO this thing is only good for live Rock band or similar. Not usable for any Acoustic/Piano based music. Have you tried to put a layer to it e.g. Pad? It make things worse.
By the way, which Piano did you use for the recording?

[jabberwocky]

Exsn03 : homegrown. Different reverb (integra) and some eq ...any suggestion to make it better ? :-)

Thank you for confirming btw. An annoying sw bug, lets hope it gets fixed "soon".

[thortschman]

Thanks for info. I was just curious because it sounded very nice! Yes I hope they can fix it somehow. Btw. did you notice that this machine does not provide string resonance? I think it’s due to the polyphonic issues..

[Lazerlike42]

I wanted to see if this could be replicated on my regular Fantom, and it can be, so it doesn't seem to be a limitation particular to the Fantom-0. However interestingly, I can only replicate it if I hit a larger number of bass notes initially. If I strike only one or two (or maybe three or four - I forgot to test) bass notes, I can run up and down the rest of the keyboard as much as I like and the bass notes will persist. If I initially strike 5 bass notes, I can only hit about 38 other notes before all the bass notes have dropped.

[jabberwocky]

I wanted to see if this could be replicated on my regular Fantom, and it can be, so it doesn't seem to be a limitation particular to the Fantom-0. However interestingly, I can only replicate it if I hit a larger number of bass notes initially. If I strike only one or two (or maybe three or four - I forgot to test) bass notes, I can run up and down the rest of the keyboard as much as I like and the bass notes will persist. If I initially strike 5 bass notes, I can only hit about 38 other notes before all the bass notes have dropped.

for me only 2 bass notes used :-/

[FGM]

Mmmmm....

After playing the file many times I sincerely cannot hear any issue regarding polyphony, just a decay/released mixture being too short for the developing cadence, if we are to assume the bass is to reach the very end of those measures.

If I were the player I could say, come on, don't remove the fingers from the bass that soon, or risk missing the A0/A1octave.
If fingers were needed for another task I would use the sustain pedal...then I could go saying, come on, keep the pedal pressed a bit longer...
If pedal went held the asummed appropriate time and heard what is heard in your recording I will adjust the envelope, either via zone or tone, since those strings are not set to match the goal once we grant the correct technique was used, as stated before.

This is why when I see many people complaining about this and that tone I have to ask myself if they do not go modifying them for each and every single song.

Imagine I want tempo 72, 4/4, horn rising slowly and going through 12 measures. We need the wave to run for 40 seconds. Digging into those tone settings turns a must.

[jabberwocky]

FGM, come on

Hold pedal was on for the whole time of this short pattern , voice stealing is happening on Fantom 08. to fast for the super natural piano's (this is not happening for PCM piano's).

If you don't hear the bass notes dropping out (for example at :06 :07 seconds , while the hold pedal was in, maybe drums is more your thing ;-) (joking)

Anyway, note ; this is not happening on Fantom FA08 (previous portable model)

[FGM]

I do hear them leaving the scene, but of course and indeed.

That is the reason for writing my previous answer.

I hear something that is obvious, but I cannot tell how is achieved, I am not the player. I am not the composer, don't know what was pretended. That is why I went developing the issues (as if learning piano) to finally arrive at :...If pedal went held the asummed appropriate time and heard what is heard in your recording..."

You say something goes wrong and calls our attention towards the dying octave.

I can get the same result by placing two pianos, zone 1 and zone 2.

Then adjust keyboard ranges and set a pedal for volume.
Then I play and use the pedal to kill the bass. Funny.
You tell me : hey, that polyphony went bad.
And I say, no: it is what I pretended.

And I still yet go saying that every single piece of music, regardless of how long or complex, deserves a matching orchestration build with instruments made ad-hoc, hence the unmatched greatness of synthesisers like Montage and Fantom.

So if under your keyboard and using the pedal the chord dies too soon for your purpose, work the envelope before blaming the polyphony, if you please.

Also, CC do offer #64, #66, #69 to play with.

[jabberwocky]

Ok you here them leaving the scene. Great !

Achieved with only 1 sound = Super Natural Piano Homegrown, as you probably red above. (although reading your posts, I suspect you missed it , or disgarded it for a whatever reason).

Anyhow,
Is it wanted or expected result (knowing that the hold pedal is in all time) - Surely not for a synth what should have double polyphony over the FA08. !

I don't see a reason to work with ASDR for a Supernatural Piano (when hold pedal is pressed)

[FGM]

I am not disregarding anything, oh please.

In fact I made the test using Homegrown, one of my favourites.

I am here to understand and wished I would be able to help other people, myself being a plain self-made amateur finding more questions than answers as I go deeper...

Please, understand my way to develop my answer.

First I hear a recording.

Then I hear a complaint.

Then I go myself asking how I could achieve the same result.

Then I explain it.

It is being already said that even the same "tones by name" have even different adjustment capability in their settings when placed on different hardware. Think a Bösendorfer being played in a bedroom or a cathedral...same keyboard, different performance. Notes not held the same here and there..

And I don't quite see why you don't see a reason to work with ASDR for a Supernatural Piano (when hold pedal is pressed).
The reason is that the chord went missing...at :06 :07 seconds, as you said before. You have the tools to avoid it. Use them. That is why I talked about a horn playing for 40 seconds...12 measures at 4/4, tempo 72...and the beauty of Fantom.

[jabberwocky]

Can you please ask your self, how can I play this without having this problem ? (With the problem I already did for you)

Or at least try to agree that this kind of behaviour is not expected. (the recording is only 1 part , not much of orchestration)

ADSR , <- no way (I'm holding down the pedal)
CC# messages <- no way (I'm using my DP10 pedal in the hold pedal input , only settings are normal/reverse, and continous mode on/off)


Conclusion (for me) : Still Polyphony issue !

[FGM]

Going back home to find an answer...
Give me some twenty minutes to reach my Fantom...

[jabberwocky]

Good ! , please don't answer with 'don't use the hold pedal' but put release to +63 in zone settings :-)
As you will understand, some parts of music needs hold pedal , some not , some half-pedalling.


(btw, if you don't here dropouts when putting release to + 63 (which shouldn't be done as explained above) , then i believe this is a sw bug, where the hold pedal is destroying the polyphony of the super natural piano's)

Br,
Erwin

[FGM]

Shift+Zone.

OFFSET...
RELEASE most probably found at 0.
Set it to +63, do not use the pedal initially.
Go substracting from +63 toward lower levels till fully satisfied, so that further use of pedal as required is met.

Since the modified release will affect all played notes, missing the chord again too early will confirm the polyphony issue, if I understand correctly.

I have Fantom 8, not 08.
See if MONO-POLY is available and if so test POLY instead of TONE.