The Fantom G NOTHING experience has just stepped over the re

[Jimknopf]

In a way, Roland has just simplified my life.

I have been buying several major Roland keyboards over the last years, choosing this company as my favorite brand for “bread and butter” sounds (master keyboards, sound modules and workstation synths).

I bought the Fantom G as my main keyboard besides an Access Virus TI keyboard and a Moog Voyager. It is still one of the best workstations around, with many great features, but a lot of terribly half-baked functionality and flaws from a user perspective as well. It’s sound-set meanwhile has become quite outdated in many areas, while the soundsets of the competition (Yamaha, Korg, Clavia) have been improved in several major support steps and now are already better in many areas of sound from my view.

I have been waiting 2 years since January Namm 2008 introduction and more than 1 1/2 year since April 2008 release to see this keyboard become (at least remotely) what it should be by design from my view. I find myself stuck with an OS which they call 1.3 and which has the functions of what I could accept as a late version 1.0. However useful this keyboard is (and I like what it already offers), it is still totally half-baked in each and every area of everyday use.

Now with Namm 2010 I am confronted with the fact that Roland
- does not offer and not even announce a long overdue OS update
- does not announce any ARX for the G
- recycles VK organ sounds into a new mixed-bag keyboard with a bit of everything and nothing really new, but does not offer them for their major workstation
- introduces V-Piano technology into the RD-700, a SRX expansion board without ARX slots, by a major OS update providing ARX technology and new piano sounds
- and that this company does not even see it as a task to inform Fantom G buyers about ANY future plans for the G, being completely out of many user expectation horizons from now on anyway
-
No matter what they will do in the future: from my view they have let down the Fantom G user base in a really impudent, impertinent way which will not be forgotten by many of us.


I don’t feel upset too much, I’m cool and calm this time, because they introduced their bad style long enough to get used to it.
My own consequence is simple:
- after the missing updates in 2009 I did NOT buy a V-Synth, as originally planned, but a Moog Voyager, just because I never invest into companies letting me down
- I will NOT sell my Fantom G (would be an idiotic anger reaction after a major investment), but make the best of it for the rest of its lifecycle in my gear.
- I will NOT buy any major Roland keyboard gear again in the future. They have successfully kicked themselves out of my life, getting rid of a longtime fan: at least that is quite an achievement, isn’t it? And I will inform all musical friends I have about Roland’s update politics, just to reduce harm for others a little bit
- I will begin with spending money ready for Namm 2010 gear for anything – unless Roland.

And now I will have a nice time making music again. I don’t need Roland for that, and it seems they don’t want and need paying customers like me, in any way, as well. Fine with me.

Thank you , Roland, for simplifying my life once more!

[kenchan]

when you got so many cry babies here about ARX02 and ARX03 (which i absolutely luv both) they made a smart move by first giving the piano players wat they want (super natural piano) to compete with the CP01.

and im sure there will be a ARX Piano by summer-NAMM...so im postponing the ARX01 purchase until after Summer-NAMM just to be sure that im not going to fill up that 4th ARX slot.

plus, i got a free update for my VPiano...so im pretty happy.



keep your cool, enjoy your machine.

[Jabberwocky_]

thx Jimknopf +1.
(and I don't like the ARX03, trying to sell it for several months now, not a single bid)

[Jimknopf]

kenchan,

in my post about the missing authenticity of the ARX-02 I was very polite towards you and said that it is not up to me to judge how much use you want and can make of the board.

I expect you to be respectful and polite as well, and I find it very impolite - and pure nonsense, by the way - to denounce everyone, who does not share your view about these expansion boards, as a whiner or "cry bayb". If you are not able to show this respect towards me or others, you should at least be able to show this respect towards someone like madAhorn, who is obviously extremely loyal in his use of Roland gear.

In my view the real whiners in here are those who out themselves as completely incapable of dealing with critical views in any proper way. They are the true ones who are as whiney and wimpy as whiney and wimpy can be...

@jabberwocky:
I have the same problems with selling my ARX-03, which I basically liked. But who wants an expensive brass expansion which is not multitimbral, works only on midi channel 1, does not contain one single convincing brass preset a la Earth Wind & Fire/Tower Of Power/Incognito, still can't be edited in the Fantom G editor/librarian and, worst of all, does not even save controller settings (which is sessentail for any live use). This board is practically useless for any live use, so it is no wonder it is hard to find buyers.

[nickoli]

I really don't care if roland releases an update or they don't. The update would be very nice. But if for some reason roland doesn't plan of ever releasing another update - which is what its looking like- please just let us know so that i can start shopping for items to fill the empty spaces of the g

[rbarkhouse]

+1 from me too, I'm never hoping for anything again from Roland and I won't be buying any more of their products either

I know that we can't expect the world from Roland in terms of customer support, but I really feel that we are left out in the cold. OS 1.30 came out in July last year... so you're telling me in SIX months, whatever team they have working on the Fantom OS (if there even IS a team!), couldn't cobble together enough bug fixes to warrant even a 1.31 patch? When the only Fantom-G user community on the net has been BEGGING for one non stop since release?

INSTEAD, Roland have put in many months and lots of $$$ into development of a bunch of "Deja Vu" products... yet *another* V-combo synth (what was wrong with the last one?)... yet *another* MIDI controller keyboard (oh yeah just what the world needs)... yet *another* piano bench! And the RD700 SX expansion is just mind boggling... you mean there were more RD700 users out there begging for a MARGINALLY better piano sound than there were Fantom users begging for a new ARX-Anything?

I love my Fantom, I'll continue to use it for years to come, it's not even the bugs and half-baked features that tick me off, it's Roland's blatant middle finger to the synth crowd, which used to be their core market... but it's obvious Roland has left that business plan behind and is just gonna continue doing... this.

[Artemiy]

Guys, thank you for this thread! It helps me fight insomnia, I am falling asleep now, I am not sure I'll even get to my bed...

[kenchan]

hey jim- from the demo's ive seen so far and the read, the supernatural piano is not truely a v-piano sound engine it is still driven by samples but the dynamics are kinda fused together for a seamless step. kinda like fuzzy logic, i suppose?? (v-piano is more of a virtual string tone generator x256 strings).

the greatness of the ARX02 and 03 are that they use similar technology (if not the same) where the dynamics are not hard steps like how we hear on the G's piano's and electric pianos and basically all the horns. this is where the sound generator exceeds any samples within the G's waveform library...well, to me atleast.

i dont think a lot of the users understands this and just judge too quickly that the ARX sucks... so, why would roland invest the time to make something good when people will say it still sucks when there is a market for the supernatural pianos where it can compete directly against the CP01? i think roland's strategy is right on.

[javaj_]

So beyond the lack of anything G realted (just trying to keep this po in the right forum)- was there anything thusfar NAMM has offered to show that other manufacturers are releasing their big guns? I have looked over the releases thusfar and it all seems so minimal and "safe". Yet it does appear the Roland has released more gear than their competition. I haven't even come across any new hardware synths now that I think about it. Of course, maybe they should just forget about NAMM and release stuff whenever it is ready. Dunno.

[Jimknopf]

Artemiy, just for the diary: I'm not feeling any kind of agression towards you.

It has just been "too much of too little" over many months for me as Fantom G user from Roland's side. I wish you to get by well, even if we disagree about some fundemental things, and my ways and Roland's will part in the future.

[cyclops]

kenchan:

i dont think a lot of the users understands this and just judge too quickly that the ARX sucks... so, why would roland invest the time to make something good when people will say it still sucks when there is a market for the supernatural pianos where it can compete directly against the CP01? i think roland's strategy is right on.

Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't give a DAMN about roland vs yamaha digital piano wars that perhaps is happening out there. The bottom line is that while Roland maybe fighting to give a better digital piano than the CP1, in the meanwhile, in the workstation arena, the Fantom-G is getting beaten selling-points-wise from almost every other workstation in the market.

I wouldn't mind that much if I had bought a workstation that is lacking so much in potential from the competition. But currently Roland treats the Fantom-G as if it was some competitors' keyboard.

[kenchan]

cyclops- nono, you dont give a NAMM.

[Jimknopf]

kenchan,

I understand Roland's effort pretty well, and I know they have to go that road like any other major company. I just don't find the intermediate results remotely convincing.

EVERY major companies tries a mixture of sampling and modelling right now, and they all give it hightech names, despite in reality making baby steps with the new technology. Even the new Korg vintage board has not succeeded in trying that, from my view, so it's not about companies, but about convincing results.

I understand your joy in twekaing the first ARX boards, but I think everybody should be more realistic about the limited results so far. Even V-PIano, which pehaps has been one of the more interesting efforts upt o now, does not sound like a first class grand (and leading Roland managers confirm that is not intended to reach what it doesn't reach).

Simply spoken, I don't regard many present efforts as more than a gamma or beta stadium of a new technology, and it does not convince me for use. The best not-original Rhodes out there is still the Scarbee Rhodes (with 12 or something layers and release samples), not ARX-02 or Korg SV.

[emenelton]

Jupiter 6
VR760
Fantom X6
Fantom G6
The G6 was the first one I was disappointed in. It might seem narrow minded to some, but with the X6, I could come in with a Trumpet or Violin at a live show and it sounded like one. I miss that. I thought for my uses, with the best of SRX and the promised synth add-on advertisements, the G6 would be better.
I guess Roland can count me out too. Really sad Roland. Lets sue them for false advertisements.

[kenchan]

hey jim- the point of having the vpiano is that it is the closest thing to a real piano as far as touch, response and dynamics. never did i say it will be a true piano or any $100K+ stage grand. i will agree nothing beats the real thing, but at the same time, i dont have the acoustic control in my house to accomondate a grandpiano so even if i did get a grand, it will not sound quite as good.

but to be realistic, as with the ARX so far, they do have the dynamic reponse that is far better than any step sampled patch in the G.... emphasis on dynamics. like a true instrument. i think that's wat we want to play, an instrument, not some techno sample playback machine?

honestly speaking, im kinda in the market for the Mk7 or watever it's called. www.rhodespiano.com those should be fun to play too (?).