Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

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Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby DaveInSanFran » 00:57, 13 September 2017

I'm relatively new to subtractive synthesis, and I consider the System-8 my learning tool.

I hope that someone good at creating (or copying) patches from scratch can offer some suggestions on how I might achieve a specific sound. I'm not asking you to do the work, but rather to suggest the little details that would take me from thin and basic to interesting and fat!

I realize this isn't real analog, nor is it a mini-Moog, but I'd like to get buzzy, growling moogey leads out of it. I'm inspired by Adam Holzman on the Mini-Moog in Steven Wilson's Regret #9 https://youtu.be/HfOQuI0t3hc.

I've gotten started with a 16' saw wave in Osc 1 and a 16' square in Osc 2, and managed a good brassy buzz from the cutoff filter and resonance. I've added a little portamento for those big octave jumps. With a quick attack from the amp envelop, I can get it feeling pretty zippy, but I'd appreciate tips on what the experts do to give patches like this some vintage goodness!

I wonder if one of the vintage monosynth plugouts might get me closer...?
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby pstnotpd » 13:53, 13 September 2017

The actual promars sounds quite close to a minimoog in this video if that's what you're after. So maybe that plugout is something for you?

The really interesting plugout for substractive experiments is system100 imho, especially on the system-8 as you can do patches throug the menu. Very distinctive sound as well.
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby Nig » 19:16, 13 September 2017

Whilst these are all done on the Sledge, this is an excellent set of videos on subtractive synthesis which go thru' creating a ton of classic synth sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvNM5I4gpa4MfzRiP3s2s5Q

I've re-created a load of them on the Novation Peak and Circuit and also plan on doing the same for the System8, tho' not got to it yet.

I've also listed all the settings used in the patches so if you want a quick reference to the settings for a particular patch, you will find it here:

http://goo.gl/aMUHG1

AFAICT, the main difference between the Sledge and the 8 is that the Sledge has 3 full oscillators and two LFOs, whereas the the third osc on the 8 is a bit limited in comparison and you only have one LFO, but this should give you enough to experiment with.
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby DaveInSanFran » 04:53, 14 September 2017

@pstnotpd - Yes! I watched part of the video (and I'll continue later tonight.) I didn't realize how similar they were, but I shouldn't be surprised if several monosynths from that era have similar waveforms and filters.

I've got the plugout here, but did not license it yet. I can run it as long as I connect to the computer, or I can just tinker with it on the laptop and deal with the "unlicensed noise" every so often. I looked at it when I had a System-1, but I should revisit it!

@nig - Cool! Nice series of tutorials! (Shame on me for not making better use of Google!) Thanks for the links.

The System-100 attracts me as having the most "vintage feel" with respect to the prog sounds I try to emulate. I keep hearing people say that the System-8 has only one LFO, but from what I can tell, this plugout offers two LFOs. I don't know enough yet to fully understand what if anything is sacrificed by using both in the mod matrix.

I also wired up my audio output through an oscilloscope, so I could at least get a hint about the "shape" of the tones I'm hearing. In this specific case, it looks like his patch is a combination of triangle or saw waves. My gut feeling about a square wave might have been a bad guess. A couple of the default patches in the Juno-106 get close to this buzzy solo lead with a double or triple saw. Obviously, I just need (a lot!) more practice.

Thanks again for the tips.
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby pstnotpd » 17:27, 14 September 2017

DaveInSanFran wrote:The System-100 attracts me as having the most "vintage feel" with respect to the prog sounds I try to emulate. I keep hearing people say that the System-8 has only one LFO, but from what I can tell, this plugout offers two LFOs. I don't know enough yet to fully understand what if anything is sacrificed by using both in the mod matrix.


I held off from system100 when I had the system1 because to patch you'd always need a computer and LFO2 and S&H couldn't be "reached" on system1 stand alone.

On system8 however you can "patch" through the menu system and LFO2 and S&H can be manipulated through there as well, so you have the full power of the plugout at your fingertips without having to attach a computer.

I wonder if roland considered "cross patching" on the plugouts. Imagine what you can do with 2 system100's loaded and cross patched ;)
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby Manic » 21:39, 14 September 2017

pstnotpd wrote:
DaveInSanFran wrote:The System-100 attracts me as having the most "vintage feel" with respect to the prog sounds I try to emulate. I keep hearing people say that the System-8 has only one LFO, but from what I can tell, this plugout offers two LFOs. I don't know enough yet to fully understand what if anything is sacrificed by using both in the mod matrix.


I held off from system100 when I had the system1 because to patch you'd always need a computer and LFO2 and S&H couldn't be "reached" on system1 stand alone.

On system8 however you can "patch" through the menu system and LFO2 and S&H can be manipulated through there as well, so you have the full power of the plugout at your fingertips without having to attach a computer.

I wonder if roland considered "cross patching" on the plugouts. Imagine what you can do with 2 system100's loaded and cross patched ;)

You can do this "cross patching" with 2 system-1m's ;) with real patchcables
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby DaveInSanFran » 07:45, 15 September 2017

pstnotpd wrote:I wonder if roland considered "cross patching" on the plugouts. Imagine what you can do with 2 system100's loaded and cross patched ;)


I assume that each plugout consumes all the processing power of the system, and you can probably only get one working at a time. I've yet to see anything with greater than 4 total oscillators. LFO, Osc 1, Osc 2, Osc 3/sub for most of the models, or LFO1, LFO2, Osc 1 and Osc 2 for the system 100.

While I'm learning, I like having the computer connected. In this way, there is no mistake about parameter values. (It stinks having to Shift-turn every control to understand what values are used in a preset I like.) Subtractive synthesis hasn't changed much in decades. Shame on me for not tinkering with VSTs long ago!
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby pstnotpd » 18:36, 15 September 2017

DaveInSanFran wrote:I assume that each plugout consumes all the processing power of the system, and you can probably only get one working at a time.

In "performance mode" on the S8 you can have any 2 plug outs running at the same time, but 4 voices only. So it should be possible.
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Re: Synthesis 101 -- novice hints for patch creation?

Postby DaveInSanFran » 06:40, 16 September 2017

[quote="pstnotpd"In "performance mode" on the S8 you can have any 2 plug outs running at the same time, but 4 voices only. So it should be possible.[/quote]
Ah! That's true! Now we just need the cross-patching!

Where I'm at right now, I'll just keep it simple. ;-)
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