Piano roll

The workstation, redefined
xiotex
Posts: 15
Joined: 03:39, 9 January 2017

Piano roll

Post by xiotex »

I've watched a heap of videos on the new Fantom range and in one of them it was mentioned that you could edit your patterns in a piano roll.

I tried it out today, went to a store, managed to create a pattern and when it was in the piano roll screen the only thing I could do was delete existing notes. I wasn't able to create new notes, nudge existing notes, change the length of existing notes, change the velocity of existing notes and I wasn't able to move notes up or down the octave.

This would have been the killer feature for me because this combined with the TR-Rec recording, the groups and song creation make it a fantastic workstation. However without the ability to edit patterns post-recording them seems like a missed opportunity.
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Saxifraga
Posts: 173
Joined: 17:23, 8 January 2014
Location: Berlin

Re: Piano roll

Post by Saxifraga »

xiotex wrote:I've watched a heap of videos on the new Fantom range and in one of them it was mentioned that you could edit your patterns in a piano roll.

I tried it out today, went to a store, managed to create a pattern and when it was in the piano roll screen the only thing I could do was delete existing notes. I wasn't able to create new notes, nudge existing notes, change the length of existing notes, change the velocity of existing notes and I wasn't able to move notes up or down the octave.

This would have been the killer feature for me because this combined with the TR-Rec recording, the groups and song creation make it a fantastic workstation. However without the ability to edit patterns post-recording them seems like a missed opportunity.
Yeah. Same shit with the Kronos OS. Has also never got a visual Editor for music scores and tracks like the M3 had. Roland, Yamaha and Korg have become lazy and unimaginative. Only the System-8 is a big win for me, but lacks 4..8 additional voices. I can of course just buy a second one. ;)
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Saxifraga
Posts: 173
Joined: 17:23, 8 January 2014
Location: Berlin

Re: Piano roll

Post by Saxifraga »

Und Korg lügt immer noch:
Sequenzer mit Komponiertools

Der onboard Sequenzer verarbeitet MIDI- und Audiospuren und ist mit einem ganzen Arsenal an wertvollen Tools bestückt, die musikalische Ideen mühelos in komplette Kompositionen verwandeln.

Die genutzten interaktiven und Realtime-Techniken sind bei computergestützten Systemen entweder nicht verfügbar oder deutlich umständlicher anzuwenden.
8! Jahre nach der Einführung kein Piano Roll Editor.
Da hat Roland wohl gedacht wir brauchen das auch nicht.
Xanadu1209
Posts: 35
Joined: 20:22, 10 January 2018

Re: Piano roll

Post by Xanadu1209 »

It looks like it's basically the step editor that's on the FA. It looks like a piano roll but doesn't really have full piano roll features. It would be killer to have a proper piano roll on that touchscreen.
xiotex
Posts: 15
Joined: 03:39, 9 January 2017

Re: Piano roll

Post by xiotex »

I suspect you’re right. I’m going to be giving a Roland rep a call tomorrow to find out.
DNGmaestro
Posts: 79
Joined: 10:35, 1 June 2013

Re: Piano roll

Post by DNGmaestro »

xiotex wrote:I suspect you’re right. I’m going to be giving a Roland rep a call tomorrow to find out.
Keep us posted!
xiotex
Posts: 15
Joined: 03:39, 9 January 2017

Re: Piano roll

Post by xiotex »

The Roland Rep got back to me this morning and sadly it looks like this isn't going to be a feature of the Piano roll:
I've had a word with the man in charge of these machines for the UK and he says that unfortunately what you want to do is not possible and is different from the older models in that way. The new Fantoms are aimed at getting ideas quickly down on the machine and then working on those ideas further within your chosen DAW.
It's a pass from me then. It really looked like you should be able to do everything on the Fantom - no need to go the the DAW at all. Had that been the case it would have been an instant buy from me.
RFID
Posts: 13
Joined: 14:26, 10 September 2019

Re: Piano roll

Post by RFID »

xiotex wrote:The Roland Rep got back to me this morning and sadly it looks like this isn't going to be a feature of the Piano roll:
I've had a word with the man in charge of these machines for the UK and he says that unfortunately what you want to do is not possible and is different from the older models in that way. The new Fantoms are aimed at getting ideas quickly down on the machine and then working on those ideas further within your chosen DAW.
It's a pass from me then. It really looked like you should be able to do everything on the Fantom - no need to go the the DAW at all. Had that been the case it would have been an instant buy from me.

Damn...that could be a deal-breaker for me too. I thought the Fantom would be the first true all-in-one song making workstation. Not even giving us the ability to edit velocities is ridiculous. Why even give us a piano editor? BIG mistake by Roland as this will turn-off a lot of people. There will be other options for modern workstations coming and a lot of people will now wait it out.
Devnor
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Joined: 20:22, 27 September 2010

Re: Piano roll

Post by Devnor »

We have a saying here at work: we can't accommodate everyone's feature requests first. What's more important to the engineering team? SN-A sounds, EP engine, Tonewheel organ, driver development, a purpose for the 3 USB host connections? Microscope event editing likely down the list.
RFID
Posts: 13
Joined: 14:26, 10 September 2019

Re: Piano roll

Post by RFID »

Devnor wrote:We have a saying here at work: we can't accommodate everyone's feature requests first. What's more important to the engineering team? SN-A sounds, EP engine, Tonewheel organ, driver development, a purpose for the 3 USB host connections? Microscope event editing likely down the list.
As long as it will be implemented, of course I'll wait, but the post above made it seem like it's not even on the roadmap which would be ridiculous. And if it's a workstation aimed at mostly electronic music producers and artists, a tone-wheel organ should not be a priority. No EDM producer would miss a tone-wheel organ that much. That being said, tone-wheel organs are nice of course and I guess a few churches with money to burn will add the Fantom to spice up Sunday service or what-not.
Devnor
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Re: Piano roll

Post by Devnor »

RFID wrote:No EDM producer would miss a tone-wheel organ that much. That being said, tone-wheel organs are nice of course and I guess a few churches with money to burn will add the Fantom to spice up Sunday service or what-not.
Rock guys like me definitely miss it. Roland has never had a true TW organ in their synths. The CV isn't right, the leslies and overdrive don't sound good. There's tons of workarounds, of course. This is one aspect I have zero hope Roland can create something like Nord/Kronos B3 emulations in their workstations.
RFID
Posts: 13
Joined: 14:26, 10 September 2019

Re: Piano roll

Post by RFID »

Devnor wrote:
RFID wrote:No EDM producer would miss a tone-wheel organ that much. That being said, tone-wheel organs are nice of course and I guess a few churches with money to burn will add the Fantom to spice up Sunday service or what-not.
Rock guys like me definitely miss it. Roland has never had a true TW organ in their synths. The CV isn't right, the leslies and overdrive don't sound good. There's tons of workarounds, of course. This is one aspect I have zero hope Roland can create something like Nord/Kronos B3 emulations in their workstations.

I hear you and no disrespect was meant; as a matter of fact one of my favorite songs has a fantastic organ in it. At first look the new Fantom looks (to me anyway) like it's aimed at EDM styles of music but of course you can most likely create any style on it- definitely including rock of course, and everyone has a few rock songs on their media player no matter who they are- including me lol. I'm sure there are a boatload of suitable drumkits onboard the Fantom for rock tracks, so an organ makes sense. Right now I have a Kurz to handle any organs I might use, but I hope they show up on the Fantom too for rock producers like yourself.
xiotex
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Joined: 03:39, 9 January 2017

Re: Piano roll

Post by xiotex »

We have a saying here at work: we can't accommodate everyone's feature requests first. What's more important to the engineering team? SN-A sounds, EP engine, Tonewheel organ, driver development, a purpose for the 3 USB host connections? Microscope event editing likely down the list.
When we work on products if a feature is low down on the list it's not added into the USP's for that product and yet on the Fantom site you find this:
FANTOM is a complete musical composition platform that excels at fast creation and fluid arrangement. You have RGB pads, a classic TR-REC style pattern sequencer, real-time recording with piano-roll editing, and a grid for recording and launching clips. Use any or all, whenever you want.
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/fant ... /features/

If it's so low down the feature requests, why is it in the marketing or is this a case of marketing and engineering not talking to each other?
RFID
Posts: 13
Joined: 14:26, 10 September 2019

Re: Piano roll

Post by RFID »

xiotex wrote:
We have a saying here at work: we can't accommodate everyone's feature requests first. What's more important to the engineering team? SN-A sounds, EP engine, Tonewheel organ, driver development, a purpose for the 3 USB host connections? Microscope event editing likely down the list.
When we work on products if a feature is low down on the list it's not added into the USP's for that product and yet on the Fantom site you find this:
FANTOM is a complete musical composition platform that excels at fast creation and fluid arrangement. You have RGB pads, a classic TR-REC style pattern sequencer, real-time recording with piano-roll editing, and a grid for recording and launching clips. Use any or all, whenever you want.
https://www.roland.com/uk/products/fant ... /features/

If it's so low down the feature requests, why is it in the marketing or is this a case of marketing and engineering not talking to each other?
Social media is a powerful thing. We just gotta make some noise.
xiotex
Posts: 15
Joined: 03:39, 9 January 2017

Re: Piano roll

Post by xiotex »

Social media is a powerful thing. We just gotta make some noise.
Nah, not really interested in unleashing my 12k followers on Roland, I'm not angry at them, it's their product, they can design it as they see fit. I'm just disappointed the piano roll editing turned out to be just deleting notes as the whole pattern to song workflow is really good.
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