Juno G - USB Noise

[Rob Juno]

*Sighs*

Now I find screaming high-pitched interference (moderately low level - but un-missable) when attaching my Juno G via USB to my PC. It actually occurs with or without the Juno switched on, and with the Juno unplugged from the mains. BUT, it is only the Juno that causes this noise through my monitors, no other device (musical or otherwise) ever has. I have tried two different USB cables in two different ports on my PC, so I think that rules out the PC being to blame. And it's present regardless of MIDI/storage mode on the Juno. Has anyone else experienced this?

My lovely new Juno G sat in the cupboard for 3 months while I waited like a good little 28yo boy for Xmas to come to play with it (bought early under the SRX offer that subsequently extended ever more) ... is an absoultely wonderful musical instrument. It sounds amazing and can do some pretty wonderful things (especially with the RAM maxed out). So it's an incredible shame that two issues let my model down massively. The noise mentioned here and the diabolical LCD screen I mention in another thread. I suspect people are very busy right now still playing with the toys they probably had for Xmas, but drop a reply if you find these issues are alien or very familiar to you. Cheers.

[MrPillow]

When I had this problem it was the power supply of the PC causing it. If it's a laptop, unplug the power. If not, try a different comp.

[Dirk Malone]

I have the same problem. This is a typical problem found with older Dell laptops, for example. There is no ground loop isolators on the AC power supply and you get cross-talk noise when the USB is hooked up between synth and PC. If the noise goes away when you unplug the laptop and run it on battery (DC power) then this is your problem.

If you are running a desktop PC you could try plugging the synth and the PC into two different electrical circuits in your home, but this may or may not help depending on how your house is wired (or so I understand).

Since you get this noise even with your computer on and the Juno totally unplugged (is it unplugged from the wall?) I guess I am confused also...

I have had my Juno-G since it came out. Great machine. There is some "streaking" on the display visible at high contrasts (something I never saw on my D-70), but it doesn't bother me and I think they are all like that. Yours must be worse than mine.

[Rob Juno]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Perhaps this is my first ground loop problem then. This is the first synth into which I have had mains, audio cables and USB connected simultaneously. However I've had various other configurations before now, so I'm surprised I haven't had this before. Is there not the possibility of a faulty/badly-wired USB socket?

Dirk, which power supply were you talking about not having isolators? The Juno or the PC? (Or did you mean the system as a whole?)

Here's my set-up, with explanation of previous configuration and new ones which cause no problems... it's just when USB comes into contact with the Juno that all gets noisey!

PC - Dell 8300 Dimension desktop c.2004
USB Audio Interface - Steinberg MI4 (part of Cubase System4) -unbalanced jack inputs for synths -balanced outputs to monitors
Monitors - Behringer B2031A active monitors
Controller Keyboard (USB MIDI + USB Powered) - Edirol PCR-80
Synth - Yamaha TG500
Synth - Juno G

So before now I have had the PC, monitors and TG500 all plugged into the mains... the PC-PCR80-TG500-MI4-B2031A (PC - MIDI Controller - Synth - Audio Interface - Monitors) ... and also audio from soft synths coming from PC via USB to MI4 to monitors. So surely some loop possibilities within that (?) but never a problem.
(I've also had mini Dell speakers permanently attached, and a printer -which also connects as a fax to the same phone line as the broadband from my PC - just to point out how UN-problematic my system has always been - silent until now!)

It feels like something about the juno's internal wiring/components brings something new to the equation... even when switched off and detached from the mains. If this is a loop problem, something about the juno introduces this problem I think. I'm not saying it is at fault, but it completes a problematic loop.
I'm no expert, but if this is a loop, then I am surprised I haven't had one before, and can't help but think my TG500 must be earthed differently, or something very convenient occured in the MIDI cables and/or PCR80 for me to have not had the audible problem with that synth as I now find with the Juno.

I tried an alternative MIDI/USB route to enable MIDI connection to Cubase...
Juno g - Real MIDI - PCR80 - USB MIDI - PC
No Noise here! I wasn't expecting any, but it goes to show what DOESN'T form a loop, if loops are indeed the problem. Think about it... the same set-up as the one causing me grief, only with a controller keyboard and MIDI cable in between, yet no other earth points... so what's the difference that negates the noise??? I'm confused, but I'm not sure I'm ready to conceed the Juno USB connection is NOT faulty.

Any more thoughts???

I positively think anyone brave enough to give this serious thought is a saint!!!

[Rodan]

I wonder if this is really a ground loop problem. Your first post described it as "screaming high-pitched". Most people don't describe the sound produced by a ground loop in this way. Is what you hear a single tone? If it is a single frequency, can you identify approximately what key the sound corresponds to? There may be a clue in the frequency of the sound.

-Rodan

[Rob Juno]

Rodan...

A very high B pitch.

I have just produced a wav mixdown of a very short recording in cubase: 4 seconds of silence followed by 8 seconds of this noise.

My MI4 interface has an input gain control with settings of 10, 4, -2, -8 dBV. This sample was recorded at -8dBV, the loudest setting, for clarity of the noise type. I can see that typically I'd be OK recording the Juno at the other end of the gain control - either +10 or +4... but the noise is still evident there too.

There are two main components within this recorded noise: the constant high pitch, and a slightly lower 'drilling' cyclical pitch that I believe is the result of screen re-draws of the scrolling time-bar, because I now notice that the interference noise clearly includes elements of the computer doing things - loading programs and screen re-draws. Unfortunately I cannot record that noise, because audio will stop recording in cubase if i switch away from it to any other activity. But despite hearing the PC working, how can I know that the appearance of this evidence, the resulting audio problem, isn't still caused by the Juno's connections/wiring?

Let me know what you think! Greatly appreciated!

[Rob Juno]

Idiot Me forgot to attach the wav file... here it is (I hope)!

[Rob Juno]

OK, its an mp3 then, since wav is too large to attach. Noise is still 99% as per wav, but with less airy hiss at extreme top-end. Still represents the most irritating part of the noise though.

[bugleboy]

I have this issue with my JU-G which I bought new around the time it first came out. I have noticed that this screaming comes from the audio in level being up. When the audio in level is at zero no noise. It seems that the power adapter connection can affect the noise by moving it by rotting wiggling it. Nobody else has posted anything close to this issue until I came across your post. This noise does not record when I sample into the JU-G. The samples are clean. I have no idea what this is about. I will try to start a new thread if I cannot find more info. (I have tried another power adapter, different locations but that sound still persists only with the audio in signal up)

???frustrated???

[tompabes]

Well, let's see... I had the sustain pedal problem, then the transposition problem, the other day my display started going mad... so I can be pretty sure I'll also have the USB noise problem someday...

btw: I cannot hear the mp3 file... it plays, but seems to be empty...

[komplete]

Hi, I get the same problem when hooking the Juno up to my laptop via USB. In fact, I get noise when connecting pretty much any audio device to my laptop if I'm running the laptop off of its PSU. As someone pointed out earlier, the problem goes away if I disconnect the PSU and run the laptop off of its own internal battery.

However, I found that using a passive DI box also cures the problem. I use a DI box made by MTR (model number DI-2P). Depending upon the audio device I am using, I find that I just have to make a few adjustments to the controls on the DI box in order to make the noise disappear completely - even when the laptop is running off of its PSU.

[RobJuno]

Bugleboy - Yes, interesting, I actually hadn't even thought about whether the noise would show up on recordings made on the Juno itself. I've just tried and no, it doesn't for me either... unlike when I record silence in Cubase on my PC with Juno attached via audio and USB. Mind you, mixing down to WAV in the Juno certainly takes a lot of clarity off the top end frquencies!!!! I'm an absolute amateur at trying to mix my own tunes, but I know what I can hear. The very first mixdown I performed I was struck immediately that the quality was not as sparkling as a live song playing synth and audio. I've never noticed this doing a mixdown in cubase. Not to WAV, but not even as much obvious loss mixing down to MP3 on Cubase as WAV on Juno!

Tompabes - I'm sitting close to nearfield monitors at high level. My Steinberg MI4 interface software settings offer 10, 4, -2, -8 dBV. I'm using it set to 4 at present, moving to -2 and -8 makes the noise too problematic.

[ScroogeMcDuck]

I have EXACTLY the same problem with my Roland MC-808, and I mean EXACTLY. It's the same sound as you recorded. But for me, it DOESN'T help using a laptop only powered by the internal battery. There is no difference there. Powered by power supply or not, the sound is still there and it ruins my recording.